			    TRAVELLER Digest 77

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) The Black Curtain	by Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc
  2) PAWS and Lasers	by eabaltz@MIT.EDU
  3) Imperium	by "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.sf.ca.us>
  4) PAW WARS	by john.bogan@asb.com
  5) Imperium vs ffw mechanics	by "Les Howie"  <lhowie@cpx.Prograph.Com>
  6) Re: TRAVELLER digest 76	by Mark Fletcher <mf1@st-andrews.ac.uk>
  7) Re: Imperium	by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
  8) Steve's wins with the Terrans?!?!	by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
  9) Spacecraft weaponry, etc.	by merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
 10) PAWS and Lasers	by "Les Howie"  <lhowie@cpx.Prograph.Com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Oct 94 15:21:36 MS
From: Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: The Black Curtain
Message-ID: <9410202125.AA17065@khan.avalon.COM>

I like the Black Curtain ideas people have come up with. Here's mine...

In the old DGP material, there was mention of a major 
robotics research facility on Shudusham (spelling?), a 
world in or near the old Sylean Federation.  This world 
was the location of a major convention that determined 
laws governing robotics and artificial intelligence.  My 
pet theory is that the Virus managed to seize control of 
a largely-automated factory producing experimental 
AI Robots (possibly one of Lucan's secret Wonder 
Weapons).  The AI Robots became extremely effective 
tools of the Virus, due to their high degree of autonomy 
and the adaptability of AI to new situations.  

The VampireBots quickly seized control of the planet, 
securing naval assets and more production/research 
facilities, as well as a large number of technically-adept
human slaves.  The VampireBots then spread out from 
Shudusham in a jihad-like movement.  The Virus would 
have already disrupted naval defenses in the Core Sector, 
making this movement easier.  I would imagine the spread 
of the VampireBots was stopped only by their own lack 
of numbers.  

Of course, this does not tell us what the VampireBots would 
be doing now.  Are they building a vast fleet to conquer all 
of known space?  Are they content to hold the Black Sphere 
against all comers?  Are they attempting to use their captured 
slaves and technology to further refine the Virus for a new 
assault on the uninfected zones? 

scharlto@avalon.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:31:28 -0400
From: eabaltz@MIT.EDU
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: PAWS and Lasers
Message-ID: <9410202331.AA21166@m16-034-6.MIT.EDU>


  A possible fix to the PAWS versus lasers fix is to give PAWS an IPR just like
lasers have.  This makes a lot of sense physically.  I'm assuming that the
particle beam is moving very close to speed of light.  At the distance scales
involved, this is necessary.  Its even quite practical to have a very high 
energy beam.  The acceleration mechanism will probably use a laser to provide
the acceleration (light is just electromagnetic radiation).  A prototype of 
such a system is in the planning stage, I'm assuming it will be available at 
TL9.  This type of accelerator will be able to accelerate protons to about 
10 GeV per meter of accelerator.  The rest mass is about 1 GeV, so this is 
damn fast.  Any MASSIVE particle going this fast behaves very much like a 
MASSLESS particle.  The mass energy becomes very small compared to the kinetic
energy.  Thus, the particles shot out would behave very much like photons. 
The ship being hit probably couldn't tell the difference.  

  So there is a very good reason to have particle accelerators and lasers do 
the same type of damage.  This makes particle accelerators superior to lasers
when they get large, because they will have a better range.  (The diffraction
formula for lasers could even be used for particle accelerators, but the 
wavelength of the particle beam would be far shorter than that of lasers, 
giving a much better range, probably about 1000 times better than the gamma 
ray lasers available at TL22ish.)

  I don't know how well this works as a fix... another thought is to remove the
IPR from lasers.  Big lasers are too powerful anyway.


Ted Baltz			"Pigs make lousy ninjas"
fizix student
eabaltz@mit.edu			- Hamton


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:49:13 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.sf.ca.us>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Imperium
Message-ID: <199410210249.TAA03161@well.sf.ca.us>

Erich Schneider wrote:

>If you are interested I could post some info on additional units and rules
that I have [for Imperium].

Yes, I'm interested. Please post or email.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 00:26:13 
From: john.bogan@asb.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: PAW WARS
Message-ID: <9410210026.A1411wk@asb.com>


I've been too busy to send more than an occasional
quick snippet lately, but I think it's about time 
I weighed in on this PAW debate.

Wildstar said a good part of what needed to be said
about our previous discussions on the topic, so
I'll just expand on what he said.

_IF_ you are running a game in your own custom universe
_OR_ don't give a damn about connecting TNE to Classic
and Mega- TRAVELLER, then feel free to make lasers as 
big as you want, it's your game.

However, both previous editions of Traveller had a 
general heirarchy of naval weapons:

TURRET WEAPONS: lasers, sandcasters, and turret missiles
BARBETTE WEAPONS: small particle accelerators (TL14+),
                  fusion guns, and plasma guns
BAY WEAPONS: missile bays, PAW bays, meson gun bays,
             fusion gun bays, plasma gun bays, and
             repulsor bays
MAIN (SPINAL) WEAPONS: PAWs and meson guns

FF&S assumed only linear accelerators were feasable
for weapons, so barbette and for the most part bay
PAWs and MGs became useless.  The plasma and fusion
guns fire a "projectile" that is too slow for space
combat, so THEY dropped out too.  Lasers filled in the
niches they left.

TRAVELLER-history-wise, it would be nice to keep
SOMETHING from the old structure.  After all, the
ships already published seem to assume PAWs and MGs
are the "big guns".

Also, from a game-playing standpoint, it's much more
interesting to have to balance several different
attack/defense options rather than just one (lasers,
including the laser-tipped missiles).

What I came up with was a limitation of 50 Mj * TL
(not 25*TL that Wildstar mentioned earlier).
This fits all lasers published in FF&S and BL.
Battle Rider also fits, since the largest laser
on those ships is identical to the barbette laser
on a Gazelle.
At TL-15 this makes the largest laser 750 Mj.  The
smallest PAWs and MGs published are 1000 Mj, so it
allows them to be the big guns while lasers handle
the smaller stuff.

Arbitrary?  YUP.
Based on anything physical? NOPE.
But it does fit the "interesting game" and "Imperial History" test.


Incidentally, PAWs don't neccessarily need huge crews.
Remember, unless you have plans for planetary bombardment,
it only needs to have a range out to the farthest 
range it can possibly hit something, which is about
50 hexes IF you work at TL-15 AND have the absolute
maximum ROF (not likely on big guns).

In other words, if it only needs to be 1.5 meters in
diameter, don't make it bigger -- the limit is on
the MAXIMUM bore, not minimum.

This way, a 200-300 meter long PAW only winds up needing
a crew of one or two. (lower TLs will either shorten
range or force a larger diameter, meaning more volume, 
thus more crew).


As a final note, I abandoned my plugging for "Bogan Bay"
(as Wildstar dubbed them) multi-PAWs.  For those who
don't know, they were 5 to 10 PAW tubes mounted
together (multiple rocket launcher style) coaxially,
to make more efficient use of bay space.

If lasers are limited, it would stand to reason that
you could co-mount lasers in a comparable fashion, 
which would be almost as bad as not limiting them
in the first place.

Given the options, it is more imperative to limit
the lasers, so the multi-PAWs get nixed.


John Bogan

----------------------------------------------------

"LOST: ONE ROBOT.  
IF FOUND, PLEASE RETURN TO 23 AVE. B."

--- Actual sign on streetlamp, Spring St. near Varick,
    NYC, I kid you not.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:22:20 ADT
From: "Les Howie"  <lhowie@cpx.Prograph.Com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Imperium vs ffw mechanics
Message-ID: <9410211222.AA22647@Prograph.Com>

erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider) wrote
> How does _Imperium_ compare in mechanics to _5th Frontier War_, which
> I've never played but have heard good things about?

Some aspects of ship combat (line the ships up, long and short range, that sort 
of thing) are very similar, but I am not sure if the inheritance is direct or
via HG.

Otherwise, FFW is firmly set in a traveller universe, while Imperium and Dark
Nedula both predate traveller (yes, Virginia, there was a time when GDW didn't 
produce traveller, or any other roleplaying products); references to traveller
are patches to the chrome after the fact.

Pity they never produces a dark nebula sized game based on the FFW mechanics.

Les Howie
Technical Architect (Database)
Prograph International


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:33:40 +0100 (BST)
From: Mark Fletcher <mf1@st-andrews.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 76
Message-ID: <Pine.3.87.9410211137.B4844-0100000@pasta>

Bruce Johnson:
 
> >P.S. Just two queries:     (1) Wouldnt Io be a suitable breeding ground 
> >for the semiconductor chips that were the precursor to virus? I think it 
> >would be viable since Io and Cymbeline have similar environments 
> >(Hot, lots of tectonic activity). The only difference is that Io would 
> >have a weaker magnetosphere, and radiation from Jupiters Van Allen 
> >belts would corrupt chips that would try to breed on Io. 
> 
> 	Actually, the magnetosphere would just produce mag-field 
> hardened virus precursors.  Sort of mil-spec EMP hardened stuff.  Nasty 
> things, resistant to nukes and a lot of other armament.  These puppies 
> could make Fred Saberhagen's berserkers look nice and gentle, and 
> wold be a natural source for the kind of military hardware that led to 
> the Virus in the first place.    

I always wanted to know; who nuked Cymbeline? It was too far from 
Capital, IMHO, for Lucan to be involved. Solsec? Perhaps the insuing 
chaos of the Rebellion might have allowed the Solomani to find out about 
Dr Rushorin and his research.

Io would have been an ideal site to breed AI chips, if they could 
survive. Figure it out; there was a Research station (claiming to do 
research into the Jovian atmosphere) on one of Jupiters other moons (See 
Solomani and Aslan: by DGP for exact details), so results and samples 
could be coordinated there. Io was too hostile to be inhabited. So no one 
would go there. Except researchers who would travel to Io to view 
Jupiters atmosphere up close (apparently).

Jupiter would also have a strong naval prescence; it would probably be 
the beachhead for an invasion, where ships could refuel safely.

One other question. In "SignalGK" why didnt the characters head 
immediately to coreword to Depot/Solomani Rim. Surely the last thing INI 
would want would be for Rushorin to remain near the border in case SolSec 
try an extraction.

> 	Also, something that's not been clear to me all along: if the Virus 
> is rewireing/recutting/reconfiguring all this hardware, wher does it get 
> it's raw material.  Does it cannibalize other parts of the circuitry for 
> elements, particularly in the early stages of infection?  I'm looking at 
> Virus in somewhat of the same aspect as a biological virus, in that a 
> biological virus also "re-writes" the cells to make viruses.  But most 
> electronic gear is not self replicating.  So what is the life-cycle of a
Virus 
> infestation?

According to "SignalGK" the chips cut their circuitry on compounds and 
elements, such as silicon and Gallium Arsenide, in the volcanic highlands 
of Cymbeline. I think this is something GDW should have made clearer in 
the Virus section of TNE. NOW this is where my whole hypothesis about Io 
can fall flat on its face. Are there deposits of aforementioned compounds 
on Io??? 
 
> >(2)Is Lucan back? If so is he some kind of mutated cyborg freak ala 
> >Darth Vader???? 
> 
> 	Well, we'll find out when they tell us what's behind the Black 
> Curtain (evil Monty Hall Voice: "Well, folks, will you take Curtain #1, 
> Curtain #2, or...")  I'm personally leaning towards some Borg-like thing.

Yep, according to the TNE Referees Screen, there were "Creatures" that 
sounded alot like the Borg to me. Whether or not they come from the Black 
Curtain remains to be seen.....

Please, please, pretty please GDW, my favourite game company, could you 
shed some light on the situation?? (Whine, beg, plead!!)
 
Now for my Theory on what happened behind the Black Curtain.
____________________________________________________________

First a little theory....

As we all know Virus mutates. And we also know that Virus can reconfigure 
itself to other systems. In fact ANY system. As mutations occur the 
strain of a Virus may change. Also the type of system a virus infects can 
also affect its characterisics. ie a virus that infects a warship is more 
likely to be violent and murderous than another virus which infects an 
orbital orbservatory. But in general Virus is MAD.

Now would a virus that reconfigures itself to a non-standard system be more 
likely to mutate to another strain during the reconfiguration...?

Now for a few facts.

The most important world in the Imperium: Capital
HQ for the INI: Capital
HQ for the IISS: Capital (probably)
Home of the Imperial mint: Capital (I think...)
System with one of the systems with the highest volume of shipping: Capital
System with one of the oldest computer networks: Capital
System with one of the tightest security measures for networks: Capital

The point im trying to put across is that Capital would not have a data 
processing net like the standard in the rest of the Imperium. It had to 
be SECURE, to prevent espionage and attack. It had to be ADVANCED (how do 
coordinate the movements of *4* Battlefleets and (n) hundred thousand 
tons of civilian shipping). The datanet in the Capital system would be 
TL15/Early TL16 for research and security.

Virus was released somewhere in Core sector (Duh... I cant 
remember...!!!), so the strain of Virus that reached Capital would 
probably have been suicidal TYPE 1 or some other kind of early strain. 
But when Virus infected Capitals datanet, Virus had to reconfigure 
itself. This reconfiguration sparked off a freak mutation, which changed 
Virus to a GOD strain. Instead of destroying Capital completely, it took 
over and started running things its own way.

I know it sounds a bit vague, but when I post next time I'll try to fill 
in some more details.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Oct 1994 07:41:48 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Imperium
Message-ID: <01HIJ3Q8QUXU99KMYT@pimacc.pima.edu>

From:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM" 18-OCT-1994 16:23:13.53
To:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Imperium


The problem is in balance - namely, the Vilani apparently can always
win over the long term. The game simulates the Nth Interstellar Wars;
one player is the SecGen of the TC, while the other is the provincial
governor at Gashidda (whine, bow, scrape, serve, yes, mighty
Ishimkarun). One thing you keep track of is how many "glory points",
from 1 to 9, the Vilani player has, representing their favor with the
central government. Glory points are gained and lost, among other
things, by winning/losing battles and conquering/losing planets.  The
Vilani start with 5 glory points, and there are upper and lower limits
which, if the glory total passes them, causes a Vilani victory or
loss. The limits narrow as time goes on, limiting the length of any
"war". After each "war", there is a "peace" period, where both players
do some rebuilding, and a new "war" starts. The campaign ends, I
think, when all major worlds on the map (basically Sol and Dingir
subsectors) are controlled by one player. (Note that you can just play
one war as a "one-shot".)

The problem - the Vilani player may "appeal to the Emperor" for cash,
ships, or permission to build heavy units (it's a die roll, and can
sometimes result in bad stuff). This costs one "glory point". If the
Vilani do this every turn, they inevitably "lose", but get stuff _and_
shorten the game, preventing the Terrans from making many gains.
Thus, over many "phony wars", they can build up a lot of strength and
wipe the Terrans out.

Something may have been done about this in the second edition - I'd
love to hear it, because the game has nice mechanics.
--
Erich Schneider  erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu  http://tamsun.tamu.edu/~ers0925
=========================================================================

The big change in the 2nd edition is that appeals cost 2 prestige points
instead of 1. This reduces the number of times the Imp. gov. can appeal
each 'war' but the problem still remains whereby the Imp. played can de-
liberately 'lose' a war w/o losing any territory. The 'loser' of each
war has the advantage in income received between wars. I think the Im-
erium still has the advantage. Does anyone have any 'home-grown' rules
that address the problem that they'd like to post?

Phil


------------------------------

Date: 21 Oct 1994 07:46:48 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Steve's wins with the Terrans?!?!
Message-ID: <01HIJ409NL3099KMYT@pimacc.pima.edu>

From:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM" 19-OCT-1994 06:48:59.51
To:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Magic & other card games

>I'm considering buying a copy of GDW's old wargame, Imperium, which
>simulates the N Interstellar Wars between Terra and the Vilani Ziru Sirka.

>Would those of you who've played it give me your opinions?  Is it good for
>two-person play? solo? (forget about multi-player; coordinating schedules is
>just too tough.)  Is it balanced between complexity and playability? (or I
>should ask, where is the balance drawn between the two?).

It's only a two-person game anyway.  Never tried it solo.  Steve always
trounces me with the Terrans, though I've gotten better at the "Imperials
appeal to the Emperor and declare peace..." number to slow him down.  I never
understood all the people who said that it was unbalanced in favor of the
Imperials; I never found that to be the case.  It is very playable, not very
complex at all -- one war (it's a campaign game) makes a good "beer &
pretzels" session.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'd sure like some details how Steve accomplishs this task!
I've *never* played a game where the Terrans won & I've never
met *anyone* that didn't think the Imperium had a MAJOR advantage.

<Look out Napoleon you've got some MAJOR competition!>  ;*)

Phil



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:35:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Spacecraft weaponry, etc.
Message-ID: <9410211535.AA10365@RT66.com>

> 
> >From: Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
> [stuff on PAWS vs LASER tossed]
> >
> >Now, a ship design PHILOSOPHY question.  What levels of Armor to
> >people tend to put on WARSHIPS that they design, and why?
> >
> >I envision 3 sort of "plateaus" in Armor level, and these give
> >Armor Values of 310, 602, and 1975.
> >
> >Here's why:
> >
> >1)  310 is EXACTLY the Penetration Value of the standard TL 15
> >turret laser.
> >
> >2)  602 is EXACTLY the Penetration Value of the standard TL 14-15
> >barbette laser.
> >
> >3)  1975 is EXACTLY the Penetration Value of the lasers on the
> >high yield detonation pumped X-ray laser.

One problem I see with this is the arbitrary nature of the "TL-XX" put
your weapon here.  The TL14 laser turret for example, is stupid, for an
extra 1.3kl of volume, it could have a short range (SR) of 8... a big
difference in getting a shot in. For a little more volume, it could up
the ROF, too.  Weapons would be designed to complete the task assigned
to them.  If they are to engage ships, you wouldn't pick a size first,
then make a laser, you'd decide how much energy you need/want to
deliver, then make the turret the right size.

The TL14 Barbette should come with ROF for -3 DiffMods standard, BTW as
it has volume left over.

The missle laser level of 1975 is right on though... missles are nasty.
Would anyone expect bigger warheads on the missles to make better
lasers? I've tried to find a way of scaling up missles, but is ain't
linear :-/  You'd think that there would be a major arms race around
building missles that can critical a capital ship.

So, to focus my rambling, I standardize weapons based on function...
standardizing across tech levels is OK *within* a culture--"have the
weapons lab design a retrofit laser turret for our old TL13 colonial
cruisers to fit in the original sockets", but not accross societies (why
would the Zhos standardize on a size that is  a couple kls shy of an
effective weapon?).

BTW, we picked a resonably low Imperial TL (12) to make our standard...
make a *good* TL12 laser, then use the volume to make optimum weapons in
that size at better TLs.

The 700MJ laser on the (otherwise yucky :) Kininur is a *great* laser,
enough punch to critical a hit small ship (now *there* is a plateau to
design weapons around, critical hits!)

Anybody posted weapon/ship designs from FF&S?



-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 13:46:50 ADT
From: "Les Howie"  <lhowie@cpx.Prograph.Com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: PAWS and Lasers
Message-ID: <9410211646.AA23533@Prograph.Com>

In the current discussion of laser vs PAWS effectiveness, I think we may have

become so impressed by the improvements of TNE lasers over the CT/MT version 
that we have lost some points on the potential advantages of the large PAWS:

1. Considering each weapon at its effective range, the PAWS gives twice the 
damage potential for a given DE (and, since they have the same efficiency,
Input
energy).  Lasers, on the other hand, give far greater armour penetrating
value. 
This means that, for any given armour level, while lasers penetrate at lower 
energies, the lines cross very quickly:  If you have a large enough PAW to 
penetrate the target armour, it only has to be a little bit bigger to also do

more damage then the similarly powered laser.


2. Sandcasters deplete lasers and PAWS damage at the same rate, but while a
PAW 
loses a  modest amount of penetration capability the laser's ability to 
penetrate is significantly depleted.

3. In BR the sandcaster effect is far more extream.  Sandcasters are payed
for 
in a linear manner, but additional damage points for weapons are payed for on
a 
non-linear scale.  I think that it may be more economical to build a number
of 
smaller lasers in order to defeat sandcasters.

4. I think that it is the cheap sandcaster that makes the Meson Gun a useful 
weapon: meson sceens are still a very expensive proposition, and you have to 
keep in mind the possibility of critical success on the fire task.


Several people have noted that the FF&S relationships may invalidate some 
designs from CT/MT times.  But this is not a new problem -- the 1st edition HG 
design of Azante High Lightning, for example, is meat on the table for a 2nd 
edition designed ship.

Instead of trying to patch FF&S, I would sooner see refs who want to retain High
Guard just plain retain High Guard.  I personally like the changes in the space 
combat area of the game: it is the increasing complexity of the role playing and
personal combat rules that I see as a step in the wrong direction.

Les Howie
Technical Architect (Database)
Prograph International

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 77
**************************
